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	<title>Comments on: CreativeCommonsDRM-Stephen Downes gets us talking</title>
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	<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/</link>
	<description>a place where I &#039;think out loud&#039; and share stuff online</description>
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		<title>By: Learning with the Fang &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Thinking about TALO</title>
		<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/comment-page-1/#comment-967</link>
		<dc:creator>Learning with the Fang &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Thinking about TALO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/#comment-967</guid>
		<description>[...] Like Bill Kerr, I would like to see some discussion on Copyright and Intellectual Property. I&#8217;d be happy to elaborate on my little sketches and video mashups and the subsequent discussion on best practice for rights management. I would like to push the discussion toward the boundaries of implementations of giving &#8216;Attribution&#8217; and the future of Intellectual Property in the flat world. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Like Bill Kerr, I would like to see some discussion on Copyright and Intellectual Property. I&#8217;d be happy to elaborate on my little sketches and video mashups and the subsequent discussion on best practice for rights management. I would like to push the discussion toward the boundaries of implementations of giving &#8216;Attribution&#8217; and the future of Intellectual Property in the flat world. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: CogDogBlog &#187; Barking &#187; Free and Free and CC</title>
		<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/comment-page-1/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>CogDogBlog &#187; Barking &#187; Free and Free and CC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Dec 2006 14:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/#comment-181</guid>
		<description>[...] But recently a blog post and some emails with Beth, and her links to background by Mike Seyfang are opening my eyes that what seemed sensible to me might actually be restrictive on spreading the free stuff - some things with NC licenses fall off of search tools, and Share-Alike apparently gets caught up in some remixes. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But recently a blog post and some emails with Beth, and her links to background by Mike Seyfang are opening my eyes that what seemed sensible to me might actually be restrictive on spreading the free stuff &#8211; some things with NC licenses fall off of search tools, and Share-Alike apparently gets caught up in some remixes. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mseyfang</title>
		<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>mseyfang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 02:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/#comment-119</guid>
		<description>Bill - thanks for the detailed and considered comment.  I&#039;m glad you appreciate the detailed discussion, that&#039;s the point!

p.s. Wandered over to your blog and love what I see - subscribed!

Fang - Mike Seyfang</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill &#8211; thanks for the detailed and considered comment.  I&#8217;m glad you appreciate the detailed discussion, that&#8217;s the point!</p>
<p>p.s. Wandered over to your blog and love what I see &#8211; subscribed!</p>
<p>Fang &#8211; Mike Seyfang</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Kerr</title>
		<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/comment-page-1/#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Nov 2006 11:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/#comment-118</guid>
		<description>hi fang,

First up, I&#039;m not sure how you legally put your work into the public domain? One reason for Lessig and co introducing the CC license in the first place was that the public domain (in the USA) was being eroded by default. ie. if you doodle on a napkin by default, with registering, this &quot;work&quot; it is your copyright. I&#039;m not certain of the situation in Australia.

In general I like Stephen Downes approach to these question. However, I&#039;d also prefer to avoid purism in a world where people need money to survive and would suggest that there is a need for human-human negotiation as well as licensing arrangements. 

I would say by using the ‘Attribution, Non Commercial&#039; license you initially avoid the negative Blackboard scenario. However, if a company wants to then approach you and negotiate the use of your materials commercially then through a human-human process something might be able to be worked out. Although this probably wouldn&#039;t work well in the education department because they are stuck in the &lt;a href=&#039;http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Paleonoic+era&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Paleonoic era&lt;/a&gt; but there might be some hope with some enterprising businesses.

&lt;a href=&#039;http://www.craphound.com/&#039; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Cory Doctorow&lt;/a&gt; for example sells his scifi novels, distributes them for free on the internet and allows people in Third World countries to make money from them. I think the issue is that Law is limited because humans are so complex, there are always cases and nuances that are not covered by Law even in those cases, possibly rare, when it is well thought out.

For now, I&#039;m sticking to the ‘Attribution, Non Commercial&#039; license. Thanks for initiating discussion of an important detail of the CC license.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi fang,</p>
<p>First up, I&#8217;m not sure how you legally put your work into the public domain? One reason for Lessig and co introducing the CC license in the first place was that the public domain (in the USA) was being eroded by default. ie. if you doodle on a napkin by default, with registering, this &#8220;work&#8221; it is your copyright. I&#8217;m not certain of the situation in Australia.</p>
<p>In general I like Stephen Downes approach to these question. However, I&#8217;d also prefer to avoid purism in a world where people need money to survive and would suggest that there is a need for human-human negotiation as well as licensing arrangements. </p>
<p>I would say by using the ‘Attribution, Non Commercial&#8217; license you initially avoid the negative Blackboard scenario. However, if a company wants to then approach you and negotiate the use of your materials commercially then through a human-human process something might be able to be worked out. Although this probably wouldn&#8217;t work well in the education department because they are stuck in the <a href='http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Paleonoic+era' rel="nofollow"> Paleonoic era</a> but there might be some hope with some enterprising businesses.</p>
<p><a href='http://www.craphound.com/' rel="nofollow"> Cory Doctorow</a> for example sells his scifi novels, distributes them for free on the internet and allows people in Third World countries to make money from them. I think the issue is that Law is limited because humans are so complex, there are always cases and nuances that are not covered by Law even in those cases, possibly rare, when it is well thought out.</p>
<p>For now, I&#8217;m sticking to the ‘Attribution, Non Commercial&#8217; license. Thanks for initiating discussion of an important detail of the CC license.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/comment-page-1/#comment-115</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:25:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/#comment-115</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t know when Leigh made his screencast, but back in September, I created a very similar one
http://beth.typepad.com/beths_blog/2006/09/carnival_of_non.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t know when Leigh made his screencast, but back in September, I created a very similar one<br />
<a href="http://beth.typepad.com/beths_blog/2006/09/carnival_of_non.html" rel="nofollow">http://beth.typepad.com/beths_blog/2006/09/carnival_of_non.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: mseyfang</title>
		<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/comment-page-1/#comment-114</link>
		<dc:creator>mseyfang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:18:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/#comment-114</guid>
		<description>Kerry it would be helpful if you could pose these questions on your blog using the &#039;CreativeCommonsDRM&#039; Tag.  I&#039;m certainly not trying to demonise commercial stuff (after all we are talking about my Son&#039;s livelihood here).  What is implicit in my thinking is that digital content works best when it is free (dom and beer) and that in the long run business models that embrace this will survive.

Would love to address the &#039;commercial content&#039; angle over on your blog.

Fang</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kerry it would be helpful if you could pose these questions on your blog using the &#8216;CreativeCommonsDRM&#8217; Tag.  I&#8217;m certainly not trying to demonise commercial stuff (after all we are talking about my Son&#8217;s livelihood here).  What is implicit in my thinking is that digital content works best when it is free (dom and beer) and that in the long run business models that embrace this will survive.</p>
<p>Would love to address the &#8216;commercial content&#8217; angle over on your blog.</p>
<p>Fang</p>
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		<title>By: Kerry Johnson</title>
		<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/comment-page-1/#comment-112</link>
		<dc:creator>Kerry Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Nov 2006 06:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/#comment-112</guid>
		<description>What about the rights of people who produce a digital work in order to make money? Should they be restricted in what they do so they don&#039;t inadvertently criminalise their target market?  If a photographer wants to build up a body of comments about his photos by displaying them on a site like Flickr, if he uses copyright to restrict how those images are used, isn&#039;t that what copyright is for? 

I&#039;ve read several articles and discussions regarding DRM and am concerned that people who want to make money on digital works are being demonised.  If I want to create a video using a piece of music that I really like and purchased for the purpose of private use, it makes sense to me that I compensate the artist.  

Do I think it&#039;s right that the song &quot;Happy Birthday to You&quot; - which has become a part of certain Western cultures - should be restricted in its use?  I&#039;m not ready to cry out &quot;Hell no!&quot; - despite that being my initial gut reaction.  Just because something is widely used and popular (as in use, not in origin) doesn&#039;t mean it should automatically be public domain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about the rights of people who produce a digital work in order to make money? Should they be restricted in what they do so they don&#8217;t inadvertently criminalise their target market?  If a photographer wants to build up a body of comments about his photos by displaying them on a site like Flickr, if he uses copyright to restrict how those images are used, isn&#8217;t that what copyright is for? </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve read several articles and discussions regarding DRM and am concerned that people who want to make money on digital works are being demonised.  If I want to create a video using a piece of music that I really like and purchased for the purpose of private use, it makes sense to me that I compensate the artist.  </p>
<p>Do I think it&#8217;s right that the song &#8220;Happy Birthday to You&#8221; &#8211; which has become a part of certain Western cultures &#8211; should be restricted in its use?  I&#8217;m not ready to cry out &#8220;Hell no!&#8221; &#8211; despite that being my initial gut reaction.  Just because something is widely used and popular (as in use, not in origin) doesn&#8217;t mean it should automatically be public domain.</p>
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		<title>By: Leigh Blackall</title>
		<link>http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/comment-page-1/#comment-109</link>
		<dc:creator>Leigh Blackall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 10:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mseyfang.edublogs.org/2006/11/24/creativecommonsdrm-stephen-downes-gets-us-talking/#comment-109</guid>
		<description>Well done Mike. You capture and depict my very same experience. When flickr searching for images to use in various projects, I ignore everything but CC By. 

Now, I am on the brink of Public Domain myself. Others making money on my work never bothered me. Having a motivation to be recognised actually bothers me a little - hence my consideration of the Pub. for my work... but then, it is recognition that might be motivating me there - more than altruistic ideas about freedom, culture and ideals... &quot;gosh! LB uses Pub. How cool is he!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done Mike. You capture and depict my very same experience. When flickr searching for images to use in various projects, I ignore everything but CC By. </p>
<p>Now, I am on the brink of Public Domain myself. Others making money on my work never bothered me. Having a motivation to be recognised actually bothers me a little &#8211; hence my consideration of the Pub. for my work&#8230; but then, it is recognition that might be motivating me there &#8211; more than altruistic ideas about freedom, culture and ideals&#8230; &#8220;gosh! LB uses Pub. How cool is he!&#8221;</p>
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